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Location: Live and Let Die Comparison

Discussion: Book Club: Chapters 7 - 12

Category: Discussion Forum / General Discussion

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JustinAtheropinion	Book Club: Chapters 7 - 12 Mar 14 2009, 6:09 PM EDT Check out the study questions for Chapters 7 through 12 of "Live and Let Die." But here's another thing to think about. "Live and Let Die" starts to add an essential part of the James Bond mythos: gadgets. But Bond doesn't have them (although "Q" branch has already been mentioned in this book), Mr. Big does. Does this book "feel" more like Bond than "Casino Royale" for that? Also, Bond has killed three men so far on this mission, where as in CR he didn't kill anyone. Does that make him seem more like James Bond in...your book? Quote & reply Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: None (edit keyword tags)
joshiorio	1. RE: Book Club: Chapters 7 - 12 Mar 16 2009, 10:20 AM EDT That's a really interesting observation about the gadgets. I'd never thought about it. As far as whether this book "feels" more like Bond... I guess. We're getting there. Fleming is developing as a writer and Bond is developing as a character. CR was our first look at Bond. When it comes down to it, his mission in CR was pretty simple... win the card game. Some other things came up, but he knew the enemy, he knew the stakes, he was familiar with the casino environment, and he had lots of support. his foray into Harlem is quite different. He's spent the first few chapters PREPARING to get familiar with his environment. The mission isn't clear at all... "someone selling stolen coins... tackle trader... Harlem... SMERSH". M doesn't really give Bond any direction. He provides some background on the case and on Mr. Big, but he basically tells Bond to "take it away" (end of CH 2) with little or no guidance. Rather than the gadgets, it's this kind of context that makes Bond feel more like Bond. He's presented with a problem and will eventually work his way through it, moving from lead to lead, as all the pieces fall into place. Sometimes, he has to move THROUGH people to follow the lead. In CR, there were no leads. There was some drama and suspense, but Bond really didn't do anything except play cards well, get tortured, and recover. The story in LALD is much more complex, and the relationships between Bond, his friends, his environment, and his enemies are much more prototypical for the series. Quote & reply Post reply Do you find this valuable?
JustinAtheropinion	2. RE: Book Club: Chapters 7 - 12 Mar 16 2009, 2:10 PM EDT Right. Bond in this book is basically unleashed, told of suspicions, and given a plane ticket to hook up with the folks working the case at the FBI and CIA. Mr. Big becomes the first of the megalomaniac villains with his elaborate plans and his outlandish-tricks (the "disappearing" table, the desk-gun, etc.). We're getting away from spy-tradecraft ala CR and getting into high-adventure as was soon to be expected with Bond. BTW, that desk-gun would show up in the series in "The Spy Who Loved Me"--only given the length of the ornate dinner-table (a gag copied from "Goldfinger"), it's more like a rocket-launcher. Seems odd that the Walther PPK could penetrate the launching mechanisms to kill Stromberg, but hey--what's that french phrase Bond uses in "Casino Royale?" Quote & reply Post reply Do you find this valuable?
joshiorio	3. Mr. Big vs. Bond Mar 16 2009, 2:35 PM EDT Justin posed the question about how Bond and Mr. Big were similar. As he points out, they're extremely different, but both of their successes are based on their ability to be calculated in their actions. Both thrive in environments where they can control their environment. How does this idea play out in the film? When is Moore in control? When is Big? Big sees all and hears all in NYC. He knows when Bond arrives in the states, when he arrives at his hotel, and when he enters harlem. He knows why bond is in the US and knows who he's working with. Big's mastery of crime is based on the fact that he has established so much control over his environment, which includes the people. Bond's not really ever in control of his environment for the first half of the book. We intermittently see examples of his attempts to regain control, e.g. when he waits for the precise moment when he'll be able to throw Tee Hee off balance in the stairwell. Bond has his finger broken -> passed out -> ears pinched -> woken up -> arm locked -> and then Bond finally has an opportunity to take control. He holds control for about 3 pages, in which time he offs two more of Big's men and steals a car. Next, Bond is described as having "no idea where he was or where he was heading... he found himself driving on the left-hand side and quickly swerved over to the right" (end of CH 8). Do we expect that the dynamic of control will shift as the story continues or will Bond come up with some trickery to save the day at the last second? How does it work in the film? Quote & reply Post reply Do you find this valuable?
JustinAtheropinion	4. RE: Mr. Big vs. Bond Mar 16 2009, 3:19 PM EDT The other thing about these chapters is: the introduction of Solitaire. When we first meet her it's something that was used in the film, but take a look at their portrayals, and see how different they are. Quote & reply Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Largo2	5. RE: Mr. Big vs. Bond Mar 21 2009, 8:47 AM EDT anyone know where I can get the books? Quote & reply Post reply Do you find this valuable?
joshiorio	6. RE: Mr. Big vs. Bond Mar 21 2009, 8:50 AM EDT amazon.com... you can get used ones for about 5 bucks. Quote & reply Post reply Do you find this valuable?
joshiorio	7. RE: Mr. Big vs. Bond Mar 21 2009, 8:54 AM EDT "The other thing about these chapters is: the introduction of Solitaire. When we first meet her it's something that was used in the film, but take a look at their portrayals, and see how different they are." I just re-watched the film a couple days ago and I think that Jane Seymour pretty much nails the portrayal in the book. She's actually seems to be a bit more lovey-dovey with Bond in the novel, which is usually never the case. Of course the fact that she leaves on her own volition at the beginning of the novel and is rescued by Bond in the film imply something very different about their character. In the film, she's scared, she knows what she has to lose, and she takes advantage of the opportunity. She's 's working against her cards and is taking control of her own life. In the film, she waits around for Bond to tell her that she's better off without Big. But this difference is due to the plot, and not really to Seymour's portrayal. What do you think? Quote & reply Post reply Do you find this valuable?