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Location: Early Bond Girls were ‘feminist’ icons, says 007 producer
Discussion: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
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alexberg |
Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Sep 22 2008, 12:35 AM EDT
How do you view Barbara's musings? Bond girls have cut new ground to be sure; playing nuclear physicists, pilots, and more (often in times where few women actually did). However, they often did so in a bikini. What sayeth you? Did the Bond girls lose their edge over the years? Were they ever icons?
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mkfreeberg |
1. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Sep 22 2008, 1:23 AM EDT
"How do you view Barbara's musings? Bond girls have cut new ground to be sure; playing nuclear physicists, pilots, and more (often in times where few women actually did). However, they often did so in a bikini. What sayeth you? Did the Bond girls lose their edge over the years? Were they ever icons?"The feminists won't admit it, but to explore this you have to define feminism better than they have. And they'll go even further to avoid admitting what comes next: Once you start defining feminism, it becomes clear that the support the feminist movement has found over the years has been lent to the more *positive* aspects of it, whereas the *negative* aspects of it have found support in the leadership they have chosen to elect for their structured organizations and highest-profile movements. For example, the kind of feminism most people want to support has absolutely nothing to do with withholding pleasurable things from men. With that in mind -- what in the world is wrong with Honey Ryder and Kissy Suzuki being in a bikinis? Yes, in the 1980's Bond sunk a lot of screen time barking out orders which his female "sidekick" carried out unconditionally, to the point of monotony. Whatever. He was a skilled, experienced assassin with lots of formal training. And anybody who objects to that, were the roles reversed with the woman constantly giving out orders and the man carrying 'em out, they wouldn't have a problem with it at all. Which makes it hypocrisy. There is absolutely nothing oppressive or patriarchal about a lovely lady showing skin. The part of feminism that objects to that, is exactly what Rush Limbaugh was talking about when he said it was just a way for ugly women to access the mainstream of society. So my answer to the question is "both." Furthermore, anybody who insists those two are mutually exclusive, has no real business calling herself a feminist. Alex, you just had to open this can o'worms, huh? :-) 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
alpharocketeer |
2. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Sep 22 2008, 1:32 AM EDT
Sexy,witty, and powerful~~~all work to make the ladies divine!!! Even more so now with feline competition from the Other Super Hero Films...Fantastic Four, Batman, Superman, Ironman, Daredevil, etc......~~~~~~~~~~>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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moveforlove |
3. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Sep 22 2008, 2:47 PM EDT
well they did set a special standard..they was no stay at home mom
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Posted Anonymously |
4. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Sep 22 2008, 4:27 PM EDT
"well they did set a special standard..they was no stay at home mom "Well ~~~~ You've got that right! ~~~ Where's My " Baked Alaska," Not Shaken nor Stirred!!!!~~~~~Felix (cia) Where Are You??? Car #54 Where Are You??? One For The Polar Bare(Bear)....Bowplanes Down 20 * Engines ahead Full Speed Ahead ... Destiny~~~Deep Earth Sensor Initiative, The Earth's Mantle has stopped Spinning!!! Where's My Bond ~~Modesty Blaise to the Rescue!!! Her Majesties Sex Kitten, and Mrs.Emma Peel 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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mkfreeberg |
5. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Sep 22 2008, 5:50 PM EDT
"However, her comments elicited angry response from feminists."Aw, isn't that cute. Whenever a feminist gets angry, an angel gets its wings. I have now spent 42 years watching people give feminists things, in their various efforts to calm the feminists down and get them to stop being angry. Score so far is oh-for-whatever. I dunno why people ever started bothering in the first place. Anyway, *how* did Barbara's comments make them angry? In the 1970's, we did go through a period where the Bond girl was little more than window-dressing. Tiffany Case had some skills as a thief and smugger; Solitaire was just a mystic and nothing else, and when Bond got through with her she wasn't even that. Mary Goodnight was pretty much useless. By 1977, with Maj. Amasova, the window-dressing period was over. But it definitely happened. Why don't the feminists want anyone pointing it out, does it make them look bad or something? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
moore4ever |
6. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Sep 22 2008, 9:00 PM EDT
Ummm. Honey rising out of the water, Pussy Galore's as Goldfinger's tight pilot, Mrs. Bond, XXX etc. Heck yeah there icons regardless of what role they played. Weather on screen brielf or have much screen time as Bond. Bond girls will always standout on their own. 'BOND GIRLS ARE FOREVER"
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Dmeyers |
7. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Sep 23 2008, 12:21 AM EDT
It's all in a name isn't it? Pussy Galore, Dr. Goodhead, Honey Ryder, Plenty O'Toole.....seriously. Feminists? Doubtful. Occasionally in empowering roles as femme fatales? Sure.
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Green-Arrow |
8. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Sep 23 2008, 12:42 AM EDT
The feminists probably have a legitimate gripe against Barbara on this one, if only for her overreaching. Are Bond Girls strong women? Yes, in many, even most cases, they are. Feminist icons? No, I think not. Regardless of how you feel about the feminist movement, you have to concede it's reasonable for them to be a little irked at Barbara for equating their ideals to what is essentially a cinematic stereotype. You may as well call Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd pioneers of the gay rights movement.No doubt Barbara holds this series very close to her heart, and with good reason. But I think she's seeing things that aren't there in this case. The Bond series is, always has been, damn good entertainment. But not an instrument of social progress. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
9. RE: Sex Kitten*** or Icon of Empowerment?
Sep 23 2008, 1:19 AM EDT
"Ummm. Honey rising out of the water, Pussy Galore's as Goldfinger's tight pilot, Mrs. Bond, XXX etc. Heck yeah there icons regardless of what role they played. Weather on screen brielf or have much screen time as Bond. Bond girls will always standout on their own. 'BOND GIRLS ARE FOREVER""Delicous-Delectible-Dastardly Deceitful- Dubiously Fun Loving,And Habit Forming to Ones Taste Buds. These Kittens Make the Role More Enjoyable!!!!! 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
purrduedvm |
10. RE: Sex Kitten*** or Icon of Empowerment?
Sep 24 2008, 6:50 PM EDT
I, as a strong, idependent, professional woman love the Bond girls. Love the sexual inneundo. It's fun and fantasy for crying out loud people. Wow. Get a life.They were often smart women in the own right. So they fell for Bond. I would too! 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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mkfreeberg |
11. RE: Sex Kitten*** or Icon of Empowerment?
Sep 24 2008, 8:00 PM EDT
This might be a good place to point out the comment from "Jack" regarding the special with Maryam d'Abo, "Bond Girls Are Forever" (2002):http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0353252/usercomments "So I'm watching the 007 marathon on American Movie Classics, and along comes this show called 'Bond Girls Are Forever'. You can imagine my surprise when these women, who played characters with names like 'Pussy Galore', 'Dr. Good Head', and 'Octopussy' started talking about themselves as if they were paragons of the women's lib movement! Each in turns claims that she was the first to portray a 'strong female character' in a Bond film. Then the next claims she was the first, then the next one was the first, etc. Somewhat comical, just for the way they contradict each other." I didn't realize it until I watched it again (it's on one of your bonus discs with the James Bond Ultimate Edition), but Jack is absolutely right. The show isn't about *all the Bond girls* being symbols of strong, seductive female power. Each one comes on and claims to be the first butt-kicker. In each case, if she's right, then Ursula Andress and all the others that came before, must necessarily have been weak and submissive. Which isn't even the case with Ursula. This is the case with all aspects of being a Bond fan. You have to resort to these little tricks to tell what's true, apart from the showboating, grandstanding bee ess. And Catherine Bach or Halle Berry or Izabella Scorupco being the "first strong" Bond girl, is grandstanding bee ess. Do you find this valuable? |
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alpharocketeer |
12. RE: Sex Kitten*** or Icon of Empowerment?
Sep 24 2008, 8:06 PM EDT
"I, as a strong, idependent, professional woman love the Bond girls. Love the sexual inneundo. It's fun and fantasy for crying out loud people. Wow. Get a life.Your Purrde Shmart, for being a Lioness as Maxwell would say. Would u rate Allain Quatermain KIng of The 007 Jungle? Or would preferr Moore To Adore? Great Ceasers Ghost do u like Lions or Jaguars? 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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mkfreeberg |
13. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Oct 5 2008, 3:00 PM EDT
"The feminists probably have a legitimate gripe against Barbara on this one, if only for her overreaching. Are Bond Girls strong women? Yes, in many, even most cases, they are. Feminist icons? No, I think not. Regardless of how you feel about the feminist movement, you have to concede it's reasonable for them to be a little irked at Barbara for equating their ideals to what is essentially a cinematic stereotype. You may as well call Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd pioneers of the gay rights movement."In the sixties, Nichelle Nichols got all kinds of mad props for advancing the cause of women by plugging Captain Kirk's voice into alien starships. Whereupon male-chauvinist Kirk would opine as only he could. Simply pushing a button to open the channel, a job some dogs and cats could be trained to do, was hailed as liberating. Now, Honey Ryder was a true individualist. She educated herself by studying the encyclopedia and made her own way in the world by collecting seashells. Tatiana Romanova, Pussy Galore, Dominetta Vitali and Traci Draco changed the outcome. Not just incrementally like Felix Liter, but from complete-failure to complete-success. It should be pointed out there was a strong trend of Bond ladies being *passive* feminist icons, which is to say, they made women in general look better simply by having interesting lives. That was a substantial sea change back then. If womens' lib had any noble mission whatsoever, surely it must rank very high to alter the prevailing public sentiment back then that women, as people, were boring, simple, two-dimensional creatures. These Connery movies spent ample time exploring what was different about these women; Bond was interested in the answers to his questions, and the audience along with him. Now, how are the women of the sixties *not* supposed to be progressive? Some of them wore swimsuits. I can't express in words how incredibly weak I find this argument to be. Do you find this valuable? |
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Posted Anonymously |
14. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Oct 9 2008, 12:16 AM EDT
Kittens/and empowering````>>>Made the Movie Flow!!
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Posted Anonymously |
15. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Oct 9 2008, 1:44 AM EDT
"NewsFlash!!!!!~~~~~OOO Unit Found That Senator Joe Biden Will Be the next Possibly Elected President of The United States by Reason of Default......"Information leading to the story that Senator ~~~ Joe Biden ~~~will be Next U.S.A . President . Barack Obama being born in Kenya not the United States Of America--- By Default``` Bond 007 and other agents were on the Assignment.. that gave the evidence To Felix of the CIA~~~ 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
16. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Oct 9 2008, 11:32 AM EDT
" Information leading to the story that Senator ~~~ Joe Biden ~~~will be Next U.S.A . President . Barack Obama being born in Kenya not the United States Of America--- By Default``` Bond 007 and other agents were on the Assignment.. that gave the evidence To Felix of the CIA~~~"Uh, he was born in Hawaii. There's no serious dispute about this. There's a birth certificate The Chosen One is refusing to produce, which would be enormous news if he were a Republican. But nobody's advanced a serious assertion that he was born anywhere but Hawaii. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
17. RE: Sex kitten or icon of empowerment?
Oct 27 2008, 1:02 AM EDT
Obama s mom forced the Hawaian office to make due on B>C> so it was a fraud perpetrated by Manchurian candidates Mom!!!!!!
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FionaVolpe |
18. RE: Sex Kitten*** or Icon of Empowerment?
Nov 23 2008, 1:44 AM EST
"I, as a strong, idependent, professional woman love the Bond girls. Love the sexual inneundo. It's fun and fantasy for crying out loud people. Wow. Get a life.x2. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
