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Discussion: The coolest scheme?


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Matt_Bohlmann
Matt_Bohlmann
The coolest scheme?
Mar 14 2008, 6:46 PM EDT
So which villain do you think had the best plan/scheme/plot going?

I always thought Goldfinger's Operation Grand Slam was pretty slick (Bond himself was duly impressed) -- but then you have to wonder how he thought he was going to get to keep any of his own gold after nuking an American military installation...

Drax and Stromberg had outrageously elaborate (and basically identical) schemes going -- maybe if they'd worked together they could have pulled it off. ("Look, after we nuke/poison the planet, I get the oceans, you get outer space. Deal?")

Elektra and Renard's scheme was pretty well thought out -- and rather pragmatic. Kamal and Orlov's was patently ridiculous. And I'm still not sure exactly what Dr. No hoped to accomplish.

Then there's Kronsteen's delightfully elaborate and elegant masterplan in From Russia With Love. I'd have to say that's my favorite. I mean it was perfect -- except of course that they were dealing with Bond...

Thoughts?
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alexberg
alexberg
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 15 2008, 3:08 PM EDT
What a fantastic discussion item. I have to admit to being enamored with the simplicity of Goldfinger's plan, but I am so partial to the film that I just might be biased there.

One scheme worth mentioning was Elliot Carver's plans to make money on media by pitting super powers against one another. It's almost like you could see the writers throwing darts at a picture of Rupert Murdoch. And that's before the WSJ acquisition.

'You provide the pictures, and I'll provide the war'
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JustinAtheropinion
JustinAtheropinion
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 15 2008, 4:46 PM EDT
"What a fantastic discussion item. I have to admit to being enamored with the simplicity of Goldfinger's plan, but I am so partial to the film that I just might be biased there.

One scheme worth mentioning was Elliot Carver's plans to make money on media by pitting super powers against one another. It's almost like you could see the writers throwing darts at a picture of Rupert Murdoch. And that's before the WSJ acquisition.

'You provide the pictures, and I'll provide the war'"
That, by the way, was a famous quote from William Randolph Hearst about the Spanish-American war.

It's hard to fault Operation Grand Slam--such an improvement over the book's scheme, which was to steal all that very heavy gold.

So much of the Bond plots deal with triangulation, pitting two super-powers against each other to create a power-vaccuum after their distruction. It all goes back to Blofeld and his Japanese fighting fish.

Re; Dr. No. No was a SPECTRE agent opearting at the behest of Blofeld, who--like in Thunderball--would no doubt extort money from the US to prevent the sabotaging of their space program.

Sanchez and Mr. Big should have gone into business together, as they had basically the same scheme.

I also like "The Living Daylights" which is so complicated I'm amazed anybody could figure it out--it's a bit like FRWL, only Whittaker/Koskov are in cahoots to get rich, expand their market, and pit the Soviet and British spy agencies against each other.

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Anonymous
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 16 2008, 5:04 AM EDT
goldeneye had a good 1 Do you find this valuable?    
Green-Arrow
Green-Arrow
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 16 2008, 9:17 PM EDT
You what scene I love? The SPECTRE "staff meeting" at the beginning of Thunderball -- because you get to hear about all the other little schemes Blofeld & Co. have cooking. They're rather efficient and matter-of-fact about it all -- robbery, blackmail, narcotics -- just another day at the office.

The performance reviews are a bear, though.
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AdmlC.

AdmlC.
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 16 2008, 11:08 PM EDT
Shocking.....positively shocking! I think FRWL was good because it was'nt the triangulation against major powers plot...it was just a plot to discredit the Firm and Bond. Dr.No,GF,TB,MWTGG somewhat dealt with more real world plots - while some of the later movies were "literally" out of this world! An awful lot of spacebased weapons going on! Do you find this valuable?    
Thelizardking
Thelizardking
The James Bond Plots.
Mar 17 2008, 3:31 AM EDT
"And he strikes...like Thunderball. "
The best plot was from the 1965 Bond film, Thunderball. It has a perfect balance of realsim and fantasy. It greatly surpasses all previous and succesive Bond plots.

Goldfinger comes in a mere second for sheer size and the worst was You only Live Twice for sheer stupidity.
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Thelizardking
Thelizardking
Thunderball, the best Bond plot.
Mar 17 2008, 3:35 AM EDT
This is the greatest Bond plot, with a perfect balance of Realism and fantasy.

Goldfinger comes in at a close second because of sheer size.

You Only Live Twice is the worst, simply for sheer stupidity.
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Dmeyers
Dmeyers
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 18 2008, 4:33 AM EDT
"You what scene I love? The SPECTRE "staff meeting" at the beginning of Thunderball -- because you get to hear about all the other little schemes Blofeld & Co. have cooking. They're rather efficient and matter-of-fact about it all -- robbery, blackmail, narcotics -- just another day at the office.

The performance reviews are a bear, though."
I'm with Green-Arrow on this one. It's like you wanted them all to raise a glass in unison and say "Gentlemen, to evil!"
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boothroyd
boothroyd
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 25 2008, 11:22 AM EDT
I'm going to concur with Green Arrow, lizardking, and others and rank Thunderball as having the most believable, and most well-executed in terms of film making, evil plot. I guess I'd give Goldfinger the second-best, although I always thought it was just a bit lame that 007 would kiss Pussy Galore and turn her to the path of the righteous (that was lampooned a bit in Thunderball as well.) Probably realizing she'd been deceived about the poison gas by Goldfinger, and thus might be expendable herself, would have made more difference. I'd also give honorable mention to OHMSS--germ warfare against agriculture was also a fairly viable plot device.

The worst is a tougher call, as there's so many of them--it's probably a toss up between The Spy Who Loved Me and Moonraker--rich industrialists want to destroy the world, in which case their riches and power will vanish? I don't think so. I guess the more the films got away from the Fleming books, the crazier their plots got.
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DocHolliday
DocHolliday
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 25 2008, 12:57 PM EDT
You Only Live Twice had a pretty outlandish scheme going -- all that advanced technology, hollowed-out volcano, capsule-swallowing spacecraft that uses retros to land -- just to start a war between the US and Russia? Really, during the peak of the Cold War couldn't that have been accomplished a little more simply? Maybe with just a couple ASAT missiles fired from strategically selected locations? Talk about overengineering your solution...

Stromberg's method, although elaborate, was at least a little more direct -- steal the submarines and just start the damn war yourself.

Drax's plot had one merit, for what it's worth: if you're going to wipe out all human life on Earth, it makes sense to not want to BE on Earth when it happens.

Of course, without these ridiculous schemes, there would be no enormous Ken Adam sets in which to place the catwalks upon which the jumpsuit-clad henchman stand. Perhaps the Henchman's Union is to blame, for forcing villains to incorporate lairs into their schemes that comply with their rigid catwalk quota before they'll agree to (jump)suit up.
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CharmOffensive
CharmOffensive
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 26 2008, 6:37 AM EDT
My favourite scheme, i think, was ... Max Zorins. But that's almost certainly only because my ex girlfriend lives near Silicon Valley.

More seriously, i liked Elliot Carvers plot from Tomorrow Never Dies. It's interesting for me to think about this, because my favourite films were all from the Moore era, and although the evil schemes were good, even i'd be hardpressed to say that any of them are a contender for the absolute best of the series. So i guess for me at least the scheme isn't too integral to making a good Bond movie.

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mkfreeberg
mkfreeberg
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 26 2008, 10:25 AM EDT
"You what scene I love? The SPECTRE "staff meeting" at the beginning of Thunderball -- because you get to hear about all the other little schemes Blofeld & Co. have cooking. They're rather efficient and matter-of-fact about it all -- robbery, blackmail, narcotics -- just another day at the office."
Think I'm going to have to put another vote in for Thunderball. Goldeneye used the same scheme to far better effect, but if we're awarding points for originality we have to give credit to Mr. McClory's vehicle.

Second place to Drax. However, now that I'm older I find myself disenchanted with Bond saving the world. He's most appealing to me as a Knight in the faithful service of Her Majesty. First hour he's just as bad as the bad guys, second hour he's saving little kids in Uganda and little old ladies in Saskatchewan, none of whom he'll ever meet? I know that's what a "good guy" is supposed to do, but the twist is a bit much for me.

I liked Octopussy's plot because of the chain reaction domino-effect. The Japanese fighting-fish idea is implemented with a nuclear explosion in East Germany...it's financed by an elaborate counterfeit scheme involving priceless jewelry...Bond gets wise to it because they got careless trying to prepare for a routine inventory. The complexity adds a certain appeal.

FRWL set the tone -- the cunning fish waits for the two larger to fight it out, and jumps in for the kill. VERY cool.

Stromberg's plan more closely resembled Blofeld's in FRWL than Drax's.

Special raspberry for Living Daylights, OHMSS and TMWTGG. Bond should never be busting drug kingpins (although Sanchez made this work). I couldn't understand why Lazenby wouldn't stand up from that couch and just start laughing his ass off hearing about the brainwashed bimbos poisoning the crops. It certainly isn't a very scary plan. And Scaramanga's scheme was an extravagant and clumsy tie-in to the crisis of the day...it hasn't aged well.
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Matt_Bohlmann
Matt_Bohlmann
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 26 2008, 12:44 PM EDT
Of course, with Sanchez it was strictly personal for Bond. M even told him it was "the Americans' mess" and he should just leave it alone.

And although Stromberg's means of starting a war closely mirrored those employed by SPECTRE, his goals were the same a Drax's -- destroy the world and then create his own personal utopia. Drax's plot was maybe a little better thought out, since he only aimed to wipe out humans, leaving the planet's ecology and infrastructure intact, while Stromberg's pretty much would leave the surface of the Earth uninhabitable (and shouldn't he have built his "underwater cities" first before launching his nukes?). Drax was also thoughtful enough to stock up on women before unleashing his apocalypse -- all Stromberg had was XXX, and that seemed like just an afterthought.

I'm always amused by the way Bond "stumbles" onto these master schemes to destroy the world or unleash disaster through the most oblique ways -- an investigation into gold smuggling reveals a plot to nuke a military installation; an investigation into diamond smuggling unravels a plan to hold the whole planet for ransom. A fake Faberge egg, a Siberian microchip (and a juiced racehorse?!), a chance encounter at a health spa -- all tertiary clues that miraculously point Bond towards the discovery of improbably sinister schemes.

And I still don't understand is why, after the Moonraker crash/hijacking, M's first thought is to send Bond to investigate the shuttle's manufacturer? Talk about sniffing out an unlikely lead...
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JustinAtheropinion
JustinAtheropinion
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 26 2008, 1:33 PM EDT
"My favourite scheme, i think, was ... Max Zorins. But that's almost certainly only because my ex girlfriend lives near Silicon Valley.

More seriously, i liked Elliot Carvers plot from Tomorrow Never Dies. It's interesting for me to think about this, because my favourite films were all from the Moore era, and although the evil schemes were good, even i'd be hardpressed to say that any of them are a contender for the absolute best of the series. So i guess for me at least the scheme isn't too integral to making a good Bond movie.

"
I remember Roger Ebert bringing up the point that Zorin wants to destroy Silicon Valley so that there'll be more demand for his computer chips, when, in fact, he'd actually be destroying one of his major customers!

I thought the Elliot Carver plot a bit short-term--ratings go up, he gets more money, and maybe he'll get broadcast rights in China? O-kaaay. Satirically, it's wonderful. Practically, it's a bit dumb. Certainly it's a lot of expenditure for a dicey otcome--but then, that's what Ted Turner said about CNN and did it anyway. Hmmm. Maybe not so outlandish, after all.

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osmanm

osmanm
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 26 2008, 2:14 PM EDT
Best one ever:"From Russia with Love".ALWAYS 0  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Green-Arrow
Green-Arrow
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 26 2008, 2:27 PM EDT
"I remember Roger Ebert bringing up the point that Zorin wants to destroy Silicon Valley so that there'll be more demand for his computer chips, when, in fact, he'd actually be destroying one of his major customers!"
Yeah, Zorin's plot only made sense if you take into account his psychotic need to literally destroy his competition. Business-wise? Not the strongest plan. Elektra's idea was pretty much the same (cause a disaster which eliminates the competition) but made more business sense: establish a de facto oil-pipeline monopoly AND raise the price of oil dramatically. There are echoes of Goldfinger in there.

For sheer plausibility, though, you have to raise your martini to the Bond movies with "Macguffin" plots -- the LECTRE in From Russia With Love, the ATAC in For Your Eyes Only, the Solex Agitator in Man with the Golden Gun, the microfilm in the first half of Spy Who Loved Me. Somehow the "get the gizmo before they do" always works well for spy stories and on the surface at least seems credible (as far as Cold War espionage goes).

For real-world relevance, Blofled's "Virus Omega" plot in Majesty's SS -- germ warfare carried out by sleeper agents -- seems unnervingly prescient today.
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venables
venables
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 26 2008, 3:55 PM EDT
"Yeah, Zorin's plot only made sense if you take into account his psychotic need to literally destroy his competition. Business-wise? Not the strongest plan. Elektra's idea was pretty much the same (cause a disaster which eliminates the competition) but made more business sense: establish a de facto oil-pipeline monopoly AND raise the price of oil dramatically. There are echoes of Goldfinger in there.

For sheer plausibility, though, you have to raise your martini to the Bond movies with "Macguffin" plots -- the LECTRE in From Russia With Love, the ATAC in For Your Eyes Only, the Solex Agitator in Man with the Golden Gun, the microfilm in the first half of Spy Who Loved Me. Somehow the "get the gizmo before they do" always works well for spy stories and on the surface at least seems credible (as far as Cold War espionage goes).

For real-world relevance, Blofled's "Virus Omega" plot in Majesty's SS -- germ warfare carried out by sleeper agents -- seems unnervingly prescient today."
that is so true,what a scary thought
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Cedric(006)
Cedric(006)
RE: The coolest scheme?
Mar 26 2008, 4:54 PM EDT
Let us not forget Goldeneye. Had it not been for a , well a certain hencemen letting it slip, alec would have succeded 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    

Anonymous
Best villains
Sep 1 2008, 4:53 PM EDT
1 Blofeld (SPECTRE #1)
2 Alec Trevelyan (MI6 agent 006)
3 Emilio Largo (SPECTRE #2)
4 Jaws
5 Francisco Scaramanga
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