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Location: Quantum of Solace plot revealed
Discussion: QOS plot line...
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alexberg |
QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 2:00 AM EST What do you think? A revenge pic is interesting to me as a primary plot line. It reminds me of Bond's rage towards the end of OHMSS. Will this contribute to the image of Craig as a thug? Or is it a chance for him to show some range in the role? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 2:12 AM EST Looks interesting. I'll copy/paste the descript up on the Q o S page--replacing what's there now--it still had Al Pacino!! Do you find this valuable? |
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alexberg |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 2:18 AM EST Excellent. Thanks for keeping things current! Do you find this valuable? |
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joshiorio |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 12:14 PM EST looks like it's a continuation of the thug motif. bond is pissed off (sounds like at everyone (CIA, M, baddies)) and he's going on a skull cracking adventure to austria, italy, and south america. QoS the shortstory is about bond's understanding that his own adventures are somehow much less significant than the "adventures" of common people (like affairs, divorce, public facades). this would have been a great opportunity for craig to get a shot at the pensive, introspective, THINKING bond of the novels. but given the plot details that were released, in true modern bond style, the name of the literary work is all that remains in the films. i really don't have any idea why they do that. some may say to give homage to fleming... but it's really quite insulting to take someone's punch line and rewrite their joke. Do you find this valuable? |
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CharmOffensive |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 2:42 PM EST Honestly, i don't like it. The villians are getting worse and worse (not in a good way) in my view. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anonymous |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 6:22 PM EST "looks like it's a continuation of the thug motif. bond is pissed off (sounds like at everyone (CIA, M, baddies)) and he's going on a skull cracking adventure to austria, italy, and south america. QoS the shortstory is about bond's understanding that his own adventures are somehow much less significant than the "adventures" of common people (like affairs, divorce, public facades). this would have been a great opportunity for craig to get a shot at the pensive, introspective, THINKING bond of the novels. but given the plot details that were released, in true modern bond style, the name of the literary work is all that remains in the films. i really don't have any idea why they do that. some may say to give homage to fleming... but it's really quite insulting to take someone's punch line and rewrite their joke.I totally agree. I've been waiting for the THINKING Bond for soooooo long. I really think Connery was the only one too bring this( maybe Lazenby if he'd have stayed). Maybe it would be too much like the book Bond to have him be introspective and EON thinks "action" and stunts are all that'll bring an audience in. All in all 007 was not a thug who thought with his trigger finger,he was very thoughtfull and creative in the books.Yes,at times he had to be tough and kill--but only as a last resort,when given no other choice. If you're gonna use the title---then dammit,use the story!!! Bring back Fleming! ..........................................................................................................C. Do you find this valuable? |
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CharmOffensive |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 6:56 PM EST "Bring back Fleming" what...from the dead. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anonymous |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 7:45 PM EST ""Bring back Fleming"IF ONLY WE COULD!!! No,really, by that I mean his vision,his storyline(whats left of them),his style,his Bond. Stop trying to" interpret " and bring his Bond to the screen. No one writes the story better than the author. Hey,look what happend to Rambo, Bourne,they certinatly are'nt the characters from the books. Everytime I hear of a book being made into a movie,I cringe because I know whats coming!!! ..........................................................................................C. Do you find this valuable? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 10:37 PM EST Sometimes, they improve on it. The "Bourne" books for instance. Despised that first one--what a slog. And though I wasn't enamored with the film I thought they did a good job of taking Ludlum's basic good idea, and doing something worth-while with it. Rambo, I don't know---I've no interest in the book or the films. It's silly to say that "no one writes the story better than the author." Fleming's dead, man! Are you saying just don't do it anymore? Poppycock! "Goldfinger" was certainly better than Fleming's plot (to physically steal the VERY heavy gold from Fort Knox? Nuts!), but to smuggle a dirty-bomb in, and make it useless? Much better. I sometimes wonder what it is you kvetchers WANT. A thinking Bond? A strategizing Bond? We've got him. If you want a two hour movie with Bond and a bottle of scotch, you're welcome to it, but it's silly. But...really...the DUMBEST thing you guys are doing is criticizing a movie 1) that is still being shot, 2) that you haven't even SEEN yet and 3) you don't know the details of. Given that, tell me exactly what makes you gentlemen any different than the "CraignotBond" clowns. Fer cryin' out loud! Do you find this valuable? |
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joshiorio |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 11:08 PM EST i think what we're doing here is have a discussion about certain choices that the producers have made. we're discussing the merits of the cinimatic bond vs. the literary bond. we're discussing how we'd like to see the franchise move forward in the future. it's not really clear to me how these discussions are so threatening that they warrant your "dumb" label. the majority of your post is full of antagonistic personal attacks (the DUMBEST thing you guys are doing, it's silly to say, what makes you any different than... clowns) and i find it hard to believe that this kind of tone does anything to encourage community building (i.e the process through which wiki's grow and become stable). since we should all be concerned with our COMMUNITY here on the wiki, i'd hope that you'd stick to comments like the first half of your post. The second half has just degraded to name calling. Do you find this valuable? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 3 2008, 11:56 PM EST Sorry if I offend. I guess we're not going to be "Friends" any time soon. Josh,' my admiration for you as a contributor and stylist to this Wiki--the MAIN stylist, I should add--knows no bounds. But you..and C...are hammering at something that isn't even finished yet. A bit premature, wouldn't you say? You two seem to WANT to think the worst of this thing on the slimmest of evidence. What good does that do? Does THAT build a community? We are all here because this is a COMMUNITY with interest in the James Bond series--it is the only reason for this wiki to exist. Tearing down this new entry, to me, is as premature and...ill-considered (I'm restraining myself, Josh'--point taken) ...as the extreme protests that went on with the casting of Craig for "Casino Royale." I would HOPE we had learned a lesson for THAT exercise. Your posts do not give any evidence of it. The producers tread a thin line--they have been following the economic model of Bond since the 60's, and as they have, they have been guiding Bond away from Fleming for a long, long time. The process started with Connery and Young injecting so much dark humor into "Dr. No" and has been escalating ever since. Young knew that Broccoli and Saltzman were taking the formula too far, but they were chasing the gravy train, and as the stakes got higher, Bond got further afield from his source novels--"You Only Live Twice" abandoned Fleming almost entirely--but spectacle was what the audience was responding to, and as the weaker entries of Fleming's output became the sources, the producers had to rely more and more on the elements of the "film-Bond." The films cobbled as much Fleming as they could distill from the leavings of the earlier films--but now, all we're left with is a few obscure titles, and the barest excuses for screen-stories (To be continued--my characters are up-9 to go) Do you find this valuable? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 4 2008, 12:24 AM EST "Casino Royale" was a god-send. An original Fleming--THE original Fleming--and I felt what the producers did with it was miraculous. LeChiffre, a bank-roller for terrorists--Bond and the world re-align, and the movie earns that last, cruel line of the novel, without the women in the audience throwing their hand-bags at the screen in protest. For that, I would give them the benefit of the doubt, discussion-rights not withstanding. I think they earned it. But no, you're already saying that it's "the thug motif," that Bond is "pissed off" (he usually gets that way in the novels before he strangles his adversaries with his bare hands--like Blofeld, like Goldfinger), and he's going on a "skull-cracking adventure" (he does have a licence to kill, after all) But you don't know that. You're surmising. You're thinking the worst. That is your right. But I'm saying to you that it is conjecture, and not very helpful conjecture at that. And "C's" characterizations are those of someone who has a limited knowledge of the books. (Bond only kills in the last resort? Even that time when his assignment was to sit across a sky-scraper, and wait for the American to shoot out the window, so he could assassinate the man in the office? That kind of last resort? Where he kills because IT'S...HIS...JOB?) Gentlemen, about the only thing left of Fleming to put on the screen is the Bulgar's blowing themselves up with the suitcases, and Bond blowing out the hearing of the eavesdropping couple monitoring him--it's been pretty much mined, even "The Hildebrand Rarity." Unless they start doing re-makes, it's been pretty much tapped. But I would suggest...and it's merely a suggestion...that you wait and see what it is that you're complaining about...to see if you should, at all. But it's your opinions, after all. I am Justin Atheropinion. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anonymous |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 4 2008, 1:12 AM EST Listen fellas, I'm not knocking QoS,I'm hoping it'll be great! I think that because the producers walked that thin line things in the movies did get away from the Bond in the books--yes, to please the moviegoer and make money. Thats the way of things. As someone whos been reading the books for 40 years I feel that a return to a more Flemming-esqe feel would be wonderfull--and I hope QoS does that. And yes, Bond kills when hes got no other choice OR when ordered to by his government....it just seems that he has more of a consious about it in the books and earlier movies. I also understand bringing the stories up to date,the books were very period. But the inspiration(even if theres not much actual story) should always be Flemming. As I've said before -- I'm not complaining -- just voicing my opinion and hoping to see the new movies excell. With Craig and a new direction --- maybe! I'm not looking for an argument or "kvetching" either , if my contribution pisses you off--sorry....if its not welcome,let me know...................................................C. Do you find this valuable? |
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alexberg |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 4 2008, 2:23 AM EST I find this discussion really interesting as I think QOS will be the defining film for Craig. Craig set a tone in CR, but it wasn't written on a stone tablet. He can still take the role in slightly different directions still, but that window will close with each film. I think he has the talent to go more sophisticated and the physical presence to be a cold-blooded killer. At the end of the day, it's really up to the material (screenplay) and producers. The producers clearly are driven by dollars, but retaining Haggis is a great sign. I think it's going to be an exceptional film even with the already high expectations. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anonymous |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 4 2008, 8:06 PM EST I agree its more like a OHMSS sequal, but with bond more out for "revenge" vespers betrayal. Do you find this valuable? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 5 2008, 4:13 PM EST Points taken, C. Even if your opinion did piss me off (and it didn't, by the way--that post was written in disbelief, not anger) your contributions are welcome (just join up, okay? Seeing that "Anonymous question-mark head" is a bit too "Blofeld" for me.) The point about Bond's conscience is an important one. What Fleming referred to as "acidy" (sp?)--Bond's actual disgust with his job--didn't show up until Dalton (They even filmed a discussion of it in TLD, but it was cut). Brosnan showed it. And "Casino Royale" contained the kernel of it--Bond quitting his "00" job while he still had a soul left (Sure, it's not the long discussion between Bond and Mathis of Fleming, but it's there. Besides, I don't think audiences would sympathize with Bond taking LeChiffre's point of view as he does in that discussion). I'm all for sticking to Fleming--it's why, after the Brosnan's, I loved CR so much. It's the only way to go. Update them, make them relevent to the modern world, sure. But keep to the source, and, if possible improve on them, as I felt FRWL, Goldfinger and Casino Royale, did. Also, despite the stunt sequences that have been garnering complaints, CR had crackling dialogue sequences which hadn't been seen in--I don't know how long. And even CR's stunt sequences seemed to make comments on character, which I like. I always felt the Brosnan "action" seemed to go on interminably...just as the Afghan fight, and the tanker sequence went on too long for Dalton's. I thought this was funny. I was going to chide you about putting two "m's" in "Fleming," and thought better of it. Good thing. I proof-read my post and found I'd spelled it "F-E-L-M-I-N-G." Should take my own bloody advice. As far as QoS, I'll make up my mind on opening day. Til then, Benefit Of The Doubt. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anonymous |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 5 2008, 6:30 PM EST Thanks Justin,(I hope I was'nt too defensive),I know we all hope for a new glittering era of Bond. And with the new direction and star we may have it. I see many of the Fleming traits returning--the toughness and (hopefully more of)introspection in Bond,the darker stories,the smart dialogue,better villans. It did seem that many of the action sequences in earlier movies were too long and almost obligitory.In CR they were short and brutal - more realistic,more like FRWL's fight with Grant. I'm not against updating the source material,thats as it should be. I still think the camera Bulgars would make great suicide bombers! " Mr,Bond,I suffer from boredom.I am prey to what the early Christians called " accidie ",the deadly lethargy that envelops those who are sated,those who have no more desires." .........Mr. Big. LALD. I also never made a judgement on CR until I saw it 4 times,and I'm really looking forward to QoS! Spellings not my strong suit,LOL -- I had to look up "suicide"!! .....................C. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anonymous |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 5 2008, 9:16 PM EST i dont know bout you guys..but i think this movie will kind of be like licence to kill...the whole movie..bond is seeking revenge to sanchez. i think QOS is gonna be almost exactly like that!!1 and im sooo siked!!!! NOV. 7TH!! Do you find this valuable? |
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omibond |
RE: QOS plot line...
Mar 5 2008, 9:17 PM EST i dont know bout you guys..but i think this movie will kind of be like licence to kill...the whole movie..bond is seeking revenge to sanchez. i think QOS is gonna be almost exactly like that!!1 and im sooo siked!!!! NOV. 7TH!! (tht was me the 1st time btw..) Do you find this valuable? |
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Anonymous |
RE: QOS plot line...
May 2 2008, 10:28 PM EDT "i think what we're doing here is have a discussion about certain choices that the producers have made. we're discussing the merits of the cinimatic bond vs. the literary bond. we're discussing how we'd like to see the franchise move forward in the future. it's not really clear to me how these discussions are so threatening that they warrant your "dumb" label.Very tur it seems Mr. Atheropinion always has some way of 'having a comeback' it is amazing that Alex put him as a Moderator. I wouldnt' I quite this site after what he said to me!! Someone like Mr. Addis needs to put his head on straight. Do you find this valuable? |
