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Location: Bond Villains
Discussion: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Keyword tags:
Alec Trevelyan
Aristotle Kristatos
Bad Guys
baron samedi
bond girl
Boris Ivanovich
Donovan 'Red' Grant
elliot carver
Ernst Stavro Blofeld
Gustav Graves
henchmen
James Bond Actors
James Bond Villains
JAWS
le chiffre
max zorin
May Day
nick nack
oddjob
Rosa Klebb
scaramanga
Tee Hee
Victor 'Renard' Zokas
villains
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 JustinAtheropinion |
We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Dec 20 2007, 6:24 PM EST and shouldn't we be linking she-baddies to this last to, like Elektra, Fiona, Onatopp? 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 alexberg |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Dec 25 2007, 3:42 AM EST I agree! Do you find this valuable? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Dec 25 2007, 1:27 PM EST I'll be on it this week, unless some enterprising Agent beats me to it.... Do you find this valuable? |
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alexberg |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Dec 25 2007, 3:50 PM EST If you get the ball rolling I will totally pitch in and help out. Ping dmeyers too. He'll lend a hand. Do you find this valuable? |
 bleauchamp |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Dec 28 2007, 10:49 PM EST I'l help too!!! And while we're at it, we might as well make pages for octopussy villains (Kamal Khan, Orlov, gobinda...) Do you find this valuable? |
 joshiorio |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 5 2008, 12:30 PM EST the classification gets a bit tricky here. lots of the characters from bond could be cross listed elsewhere, but i think we need to agree upon some kind of standard. if we're going to list the bad bond girls on the villain pages, then should we also list some blofeld's commanders in the henchmen section (since they technically are his henchmen). also, should judy dench as M and the moneypennies be cross listed on the bond girl pages. should colonel klebb be cross listed as a bond girl? someone probably thinks she's hot. if we can come up with some kind of standard, i'll put a little description on each section describing which kinds of characters belong in which section. i lean toward only listing each character in one section to avoid clutter. lets discuss. Do you find this valuable? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 6 2008, 1:59 PM EST All good points. A "consensus" should be reached about "Bad" and "Good" Bond girls...and exactly what makes "Hench-man" and what makes a "Villian." Does a "Money-Man"/financier (I notice Hai Fat is now listed as a villain) constitute a villain (eh...) or a "hench-man" (technically, no). All interesting questions. I'm not so sure Col. Klebb should be listed as a "Bond-girl" as no romantic frisson is implied between Bond and her (or Bunt, though it came awfully close!). But, see, that's the kind of "standard" we should be thinking about. We might also want to talk about page-formats--I'm seeing bullet pages for lists of "killing Bond" and not, should "quotes" be italicized, should movie titles be italicized, what should be "bolded"? Also: Is it "License To Kill" or "Licence To Kill" (which is how both American and British posters have it?) Do you find this valuable? |
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bleauchamp |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 6 2008, 6:09 PM EST about Bond girls... if they dont share some sort of romance with bond, they're not bond girls. as for m and moneypenny, i think we should create a suppporting cast page for all those people that dont go in the other stuff. as for villains, we should list the main villain from each movie and the rest should go in henchman. for pairs of villains like le chiffre/mr. white, koskov/brad whitaker, renard/elektra and general orlov/kamal khan, we should just link both in the main villains. everyone else should be henchman. i think hai fat is a villain though most other of my bond references list him as one. he was working with Scaramanga, wasnt he? Do you find this valuable? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 7 2008, 3:01 PM EST But it begs the question--If we list Hai Fat--who is basically a financier, should we list Mr. Ling, who provides the "dirty" bomb in "Goldfinger." Oooh-you know what would be cool? Take each major villain from each film, and then set up a flow-chart for the power-structure of each film's dastardly plot. That would make relationships in each film crystal clear, and also show the advancement of pipelines and such. So, for "Dr. No," Blofeld would be the head, Dr. No the next in command, then Dent, then under him the "blind mice," Miss Taro, "Freelance," etc. This would amke everything crystal clear as far as relationships, re: who's a money-man, who's a henchman, etc. Do you find this valuable? |
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joshiorio |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 7 2008, 3:33 PM EST while that would be sweet, it's hard enough to get wetpaint to actually display what's in the editor. might be tough logistically. plus, it would have to be simple enough so that when newbies add content, it's not too much of a hassle to reformat it. the more complex our classification scheme gets, the we'll be required to modify contributions so that they fit with our scheme. i've been struggling with this even with the simple formats that we have now. it would be ideal to have the bond girls listed logically (alaphabetically or chronologically) but every time new content is added, the whole page has to be reformatted. when it comes down to it, that's really one of the biggest challenges to working within the wiki framework... creating a sense that the site is unified stylistically when it's created by a number of different individuals. let me think about how we could format a page to show the realtionships you're talking about justin. we might be able to create a new section titled "Bond power heirarchies" or something. for me, certain characters are intuitively villains. to return to the hai fat example, technically, hai fat was scaramanga's employer (up until about the middle of the movie). sacaramanga should intuitively be classified as a villain, but he's technically a henchman. elektra is intuitively both a bond girl and a villain. this is where we get into trouble. perhaps the easiest solution would be to group them by their importance. maybe a sheme that divides them up into "major villains" and "minor villains". that way, we don't have to worry about power heirarchies. Do you find this valuable? |
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bleauchamp |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 7 2008, 7:30 PM EST yes. officialy, by the way, scaramanga is hai-fat's junior partner, but thats beside the point. i agree with joshiorio. justin's idea was good and it would probably explain the chain of command very well, but it would be a lot of work if we missed something. i think joshioro's idea of major villains and minor villains is good, but there are also some that are really minor (like corporate tycoons mr. ling and hai fat) that it really gets tricky. We have to think now: what defines a bond villain? is it just being an enemy of bond, or do they have to do something to deserve the title? as for bond girls, i seriously think we should add a new section in the villains page called "femme fatales" or something. cause there more enemies of bond than lovers, arent they? also, i see miss taro and bambi and thumper are placed under the minor girls section even though they're plain evil. we should try to be careful in that section. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anonymous |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 8 2008, 5:38 PM EST Excellent discussion, guys, and I think we're really onto something. Joshorio, your point about the problems of keeping formatting consistent given the number of participants is key. It would be nice if we could come up with a stylistically attractive format and keep to it. The trouble is, what is that? I tend to favor the bullets format in bios and information pages to distinguish, say, various methods used to kill Bond, to differentiate quotes that sort of thing. And Joshorio, I also tend to favor your idea of adding a black "space" bar to separate photos vertically. I'd like to so that consistently for the "Pics" pages (it'll also give zanstankovic a place to put captions for his videos). As far as villain hieracrchies, as much as I love the flow-chart idea, it might be simpler for the time-being to separate the villains into "star"-villains and "supporting" villains. So, that there is one (or two) "stars" per feature film--Dr. No, Goldfinger, Rosa Klebb, Largo, Blofeld, with all the others being "support" villains. It's kinda facile and shallow, but for the time-being it might serve as a good way to simplify the process. And in that vein, I think the first step towards hierarchy would be to make the pages for the MAJOR ("star") villains to be the primary villain page for each film, with the "support" villains listed inside that villain's "tree" (much the way the SPECTRE page is so well laid out). So, fo FRWL, Klebb would be the major villain (though she technically isn't) with Grant and Blofeld and Krilencu and the rest with photos (and links) to their own pages. Is that a good compromise for now? Do you find this valuable? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 8 2008, 5:39 PM EST ^That was Justin, by the way^ Do you find this valuable? |
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bleauchamp |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 9 2008, 8:22 PM EST sorry, "anonymous" but i don't really agree with your page links idea. i mean, that'd be a lot of extra space and (considering all the villain pages) just wouldn't work. Theres already a ton of vilain pages, wed have to edit all of them. no, lets just keep the listings on the main villains page. Do you find this valuable? |
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JustinAtheropinion |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 10 2008, 12:12 AM EST Not really, bleauchamp. What we'd do is keep "Bond Villains" and make two sub-categories "Star-villains" and "Supporting Villains." All we'd have to do is move them into the respective categories. Simple. Could probably do it in a couple of hours. Do you find this valuable? |
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bleauchamp |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 10 2008, 8:48 AM EST oh i thought u were doing something different. yeah, simple cause the main villains are the star villains. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anonymous |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 10 2008, 12:30 PM EST I'll run it by Alexberg, and drop a note to joshorio and Dmeyer--it's a major change in formatting, so before doing anything I'd like to get their input...or concerns. Do you find this valuable? |
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bleauchamp |
RE: We need Koskov, Sanchez (and his henchmen--Dario, and Heller),
Jan 11 2008, 6:36 PM EST yes. then we'll do teh changes needed with the villains page. also, the bad girls should be in the villains page, not the girls page. Do you find this valuable? |
